Sixth CPC Report:(vii) Army Pay Scales (1)

4 04 2008

Chapter 2.3 of the Report briefly recaptures the historical developments in reference to determination of pay structure for the Armed Forces, starting from constitution of the Post War Pay Committee in 1947   which for the first time attempted to establish relative parameters in reference to Indian Police Service (IPS) and the Central Class I Services but also brought down the pay scales of many Indian Commissioned Officers. The Government subsequently modified pay structure for Armed Forces in 1960 when the Raghuramaiya Committe endorssed the concept of parity with the above referred  services as conceived earlier.

The pay structure for Army was for the first time referred to Central Pay Commission (CPC) at the time of Third CPC which recommended merger  of the Special Disturbance Allowance (being paid to army personnel since 1950 as a  temporary compensatory measure) with the pay, there by making the pay structure for Army slightly better than civilian pay scales. The Fourth CPC accepted the demand for running pay bands and rank pay up to the scale of Brigadier, but the structure was subsequently realtered by Fifth CPC which gave scales on pattern of civilian establishment to the Armed Forces with a slight edge due to difficult working conditions. The recommendations of Fifth CPC which form the basis for existing pay structure are reflected below.

army-scales-vth-cpc.jpg

The Sixth CPC has recmmended restoration of Running Pay Bands on the ground that similar structure is now recommended for Civil Services and the possibility of disparity on that account is ruled out .Another important benefit is that  this measure would facilitate smoother  absorption of ths Short Service Commission Officers (SSCOs) and Personnel below Officer’ Ranks (PBORs) in Central Paramilitary Forces (CPMFs) by identification of analogous posts in the two structures (e.g.Major and Deputy Commandant in Army and CRPF). It has however added a new component to the salary of armymen under the title of  Military Service Pay(MSP)  which would be admissible to all ranks upto Brigadier.

The Commission foresees that the MSP shall ensure that the edge enjoyed by the army pay structure vis a vis the pay scales for civillian employees continues . MSP shall be counted as pay for all practical purposes. Although MSP shall not be admissible beyond the rank of Brigadier yet the edge provided by MSP shall continue at subsequent stages since it would be embedded in the pay at subsequent fitment stage. However for purposes of determination of comparative seniority the indicator shall be the grade pay. MSP being a new addition to pay, arrears would not be payable for the past. The Pay Structure as recommended by Sixth CPC is as follows.army-pay-scales-vith-cpc.jpg

Some other major recommendations relate to upgradtion of Scale of pay admissible to Director General of Armed Forces Medical Service to Rs.80000/-(fixed) and the decision to allow the non functional scale of Army Commander to Lt. Generals who do not get the post due to age bar. Similar benefit has been recommended for ofiicers of other ranks who are similarily deprived of promotion due to shortage of tenure. Commsision has however not agreed to increase the scales for Principal Staff Officers posted at Army HQs on the ground that this would affect the relativity with Corps Commanders operating in the field.

Commission has also recommended continuation of existing higher entry grade pay to Lieutant in Army Medical Corps (AMC) as compared to Lieutant in the Army. Higher pay to the extent of 7.5% for Lieutant and 10% for the Captain has been recommened. Regarding Military Nursing Services (MNS) the recommendation is for maintainig parity with the Service cadre Officers. Extension of time bound promotion scheme upto level of Lt. Col. has been recommended for the Officers of MNS and MSP to the extent of Rs.4200/- has also been recommended alongwith benefit of one pay fixation increment at the stage of promotion .The Pay Scales recommended for MNS are given below.mns-scales.jpg

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93 responses

19 07 2008
swaminathani

i still do not know whether the nursing officers(female) are the officers or not.they are called commissioned officers.but why discrimination?,if they are not under regular army officers then why for heavens sak not given voluntary retiring permission when they want to get out of the hell of indian army? my only request be clear as to after howmany years of service they can apply for vrs.india in this regards is still men dominated country.please remember there are families ,children,family life,human feelings etc.consider all this and bringout a law to release them at the earliest possible so that they can also lead their life as your sisters or wives in civil lead.

thanks

24 07 2008
glowfriend

Madam, Your suggestion definitely calls for introspection on part of decision makers.

15 08 2008
vivek

Dear friends
dont jump to any conclusions too early. Firstly why Nursing offrs be considered at par with Doctors?? Is it so in Civil?? Secondly should one accede to all their demands like NPA( Non Practising allowance!!For christ’s sake, do they practice independently in civil . The real story is they were placed between officers and Jawans by Britishers coz they could not be put in same barracks as jawans to avoid U know what and logically they cant be at par with offrs. So thats it. Any more comments/queries??

15 08 2008
vivek

And to continue with ur query, they can be granted VRS as and when reqd but getting a fat pay and position unlike civil, why would they ask for it

15 08 2008
elias

Military nursing officers are parrots in golden cage, no freedom, neither they can express their feeling towards their seniors or collegues , their hands are tied of bonds which are not clearly published and know to any of them in black and white. Their retirement and vrs should be considered freely to lead a comfortable civil life after this hectic time. They are always looked upon with envy. Kindly help these nightingles

15 08 2008
Ankit Singh

Army should treat Nursing officer at par…. they work hand to hand with Dr. Plz dont compare with mns officer with civil nurses. if army wish why dont they decommioned nursing officer…… Shame on so called gentalmen- Army cdr…. Even Nursese in Pakistan army treated at par with all officer…… .

18 08 2008
abhishek Singh

what will be recruting pay in army from Jan 2006

24 08 2008
a.prakash

What is the quantum of the disability element of the disability pension of those officers retiring with 50% disabilty attributable to and aggravated by military service.

How would the pension of the pre 87 retired personnel be fixed .
Would one rank one pension rule be followed. If so would the minimum pay of the concerned rank be considered without giving the benefit of full length of service of three decades or so or would the length of service rendered shall also be considered while fixing the pension of retired defence personnel.
thanks
a.prakash

24 08 2008
chandan

who cares about moral of PBORs. they are neglected and always termed as nuisance.

11 09 2008
subesh

most of the lady officers in the army manage their postings in peace stations only making some or other excuses. Are they eligible for grade pay.

12 09 2008
swaminathani

dear vivek you basically did not understand my writings.my main question was is the nursing officer a commissioned officer or not.if she is then once given the commission no matter what ever it is they should be treated like that or if they are not officers why the facilities like house etc given like th e officers get.now if they are not officers then why the voluntary retirement is not given when they put up their papers at the earliest. you will not understand the suffering and humiliation of theirs unless until your beloved once experience and report to you and lose their life in the jungle leaving you and family fo5r years together.do you mean to say that the britishers did so now indians should do.do not worry about their safety they know how to protect themselves from anyone since they are already doing so from the men dominated army.what i worry is (even you must be agreeing with me ) the place they work should have the condition condusive environment so that they work peacefully with dedication.it does not mean that once they are in the army they lose their basic right to choose thier life of their choice.will you like anybody to work forcefully when he or she is unwilling to take up the job.this is called slavery.all i want is let them decide what they want.thanks for your suggestion”why should they opt for vrs ahen they get fat pay and position unlike civil”.thanks for your suggestion but no thanks.keep your advise to yourself.please understand when the person puts up the paper for resignation from the job they all understand the position and pay.frankly they putup the paper NOT NEEDING THE PAY AND POSITION.then why do you drag their paper for long and at last refuse to settle their accounts if any .at last my conclusion is : no need of the position and pay .let them live normal civil life so please leave them on their way and i suggest you can recoommend the people whom you feel better for the same job and leave the nursing officers to lead their rest of their life peacefully as per their choice.

MR SUBESH
PLEASE UNDERSTAND MOST OF THEM ARE NOT IN PEACE AREAS AS YOU THINK.THEY ARE IN PEACE AREAS DUE TO THIER PHYSICAL CONDITION.MY REQUEST IS WHY DO YOU KEEP THE SOCALLED UNFIT PERSONS IN THE ARMY.THEY WILL BE GRATEFUL TO YOU ALSO IF YOU RECOMMEND FOR THEIR RETIREMENT.I MA SURE YOUR BELOVED ONCE DID NOT GRT THE CHANCE TO GET IN THE ARMY.
PLEASE UNDERSTAND A S PER THE INDIAN CONSTITUTION NO CITIZEN CAN BE FORCED TO WORK.YOU AR4E STILL IN THE BRITISH ERA.

IF YOU FEEL SO HIGH ABOUT THE NURSING OFFICERS JOB PLEASE SEND YOUR BELOVED ONCE TO REPLACE THE UNWILLING OFFICERS WHO WANT TO RESIGN.THANKS.

DEAR GLOW FRIEND AND ELIAS
THANKS TO YOU SINCE YOU ATLEAST UNDERSTAND THE PAIN OF THE LADY OFFICERS.

13 09 2008
subesh

i am not mentioning only about mns officers
in indian army most of the lady officers let it be any cadre after marriage manage to get peace postings-their efficiency????
what about them???what about their pay and perks

14 09 2008
harsh

hello vivek.I dont understand why nurses are compared at par with the doctors!!lemme tell you that (since you dont seem to know it)NURSING is a different profession altogether.and nurses have never eyed the NPA(where did you get that idea from?)God forbid, but if you ever get admitted in the hospital,I m sure you will notice that nursing care is what nurses give.thats their job.and i as a son of a retired nurse(MNS) think nursing care allowance is something they should be getting even without their asking!!

14 09 2008
harsh

and again to you Vivek…..are you still in the British era??come on dude, we are an independent country with our own constitution and ours is a country that respects women(even though there can be exceptions like you).i would like to know what fault has the MNS officers got to invite these not-so-gentleman kinda remarks from you!!

14 09 2008
swaminathani

dear subesh

your comments are really funny.any lady officer is given peace posting means for how many years????? when thy are pregnant and after delivery to bring up the breast fed children for another 1 year. this also in this country is pricking your eyes??? just ask your beloved mom whether i am right or you are.have some humanity dear.pl.understand that if you take a list of the women officers you will find 90 % of them are in hell.they feel suffocated.ofcourse due to humiliation and harrassment.if you do not know please understand that if any question is asked by the ladies the so called men higher than them and in command will declare the ladies as psychatric patients and anything they want. so pl.find out how they live leaving the family children parents.you would never ever like to send your beloved ones to the army.imagine if you are given the worlds best possible food shelter etc and put you alone in a GOLDAN CAGE for years but after some times you want to get released from the cage because you had enough of lonliness,seperation from your beloved but you are not released.the same feeling is with the lady officers whose papers are rejected.I AM WAITING FOR A REPLY FROM MY RENOWNED KNOWLEDGABLE FRIEND VIVEK.

17 09 2008
Sujay

I completely agree with comments made by swaminathani et all .

My wife is working in the MNS, and the kind of shift /duty they face is extremely horrible.

She has to report to the hospital , if she is sick and every time she asks for a off day, ( supposedly to be given once in a week , but it is solely dependent on the management) .. and I mean it

Being a civilian this looks to me as an extremely unorganized management and the Indian Govt should take necessary steps to prevent this .

RELEASE – The people working at MNS have joined the duty in their own will and there should be NO legal bindings whatsoever to prevent them from resigning the job .

I guess one should form a group at groups.google.com or groups.yahoo.com and start inviting your friends who are suffering from the same .

Hopefully a combined and joint effort shall make things easier … we can send this to the ministry of defence .

I AM SERIOUS …. I am also subscribing to this feed to get updates .

17 09 2008
Sujay

Just posted a complaint here .. .. please circulate the news across the globe .

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/release-problems-from-mns-in-indian-armed-forces-indian-army-c99113.html

Launch a joint fight together .

19 09 2008
swaminathani

dear mr.sujay

thanks at last one good indian and a good human being has understood the trouble the mns face.
yes i agree.the management (principal matrons etc.) do not know to administer . the mns officers are really living at the will and mercy of the pmsetc.(that is what the pms think0.imagine a person working at night shift from 7.30 pm to next 8.30 or 9 am and the reliver is not provided.can anyone tolerate??? even after completing the night duty sometimes continuously for 25 days the day off(which they are entitled to) is not given saying that there is no reliever.is it not the utter lack of efficiency of the admini ladies??? if no reliever bloody well engage so many tutor ladies who are simply heating their *********** buttering the male officers and roaming around. which country does engage the female officers for continuous night duty for 15 to 25 days without weekly off.why do they call it a weekly off???.that should be given every week.what to do the law makers also do not understand the difficulties and sufferings of the mns.that is not the surprise.even the principal matrons and assistants also do not know or do not understand the sufferings of the mns(or they act and forgot their sufferings they underwent).

this is absolutely lack of knowledge and lack of management skill so that the time table and roster as to whom to engage in the comfortable manner.
some mns get night duty every month and some do not get night duty even after 5 months.the ddmns or whoever incharge of the mns in the headquartes shoul have a check to findout the efficiency of the administrators and if they do not desrve the post please remove her from the duty responsibility and give them other responsibility after findingout which is suitable for them.

ALL I WANT TO SAY IS DO NOT KILL THE MNS AND RUIN THEIR LIFE .THEY ARE EMPLOYED BY THE ARMY AND ABIDE BY THE RULES BUT PLEASE I REQUEST ALL THE LAWMAKERS AND CONCERNED PEOPLE TO IN THE ARMY TO COSIDER THEY ARE ALSO GOOD CITIZEN AND DO NOT MAKE THEM FEEL THAT THEY ARE TRAPED AND RUINED THEIR ;LIFE BY CHOOSING THE MNS JOB AND DEVELOP THE HATRED TOWARDS THE INDIAN ARMY WHICH LEADS TO HUMILIATION AND SADNESS AND SPOIL THEIR FAMILY LIFE AND NOT ABLE TO UPBRING THEIR CHILDREN AS OTHER CIVILIANS BRING UP. I AM ALSO WITH YOU TO LAUNCH A FIGHT TILL THE END FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE MNS.

.

24 09 2008
CRPF constiable pay scales

give me pay scale details

25 09 2008
arun

mr vivek
just one day employ civil nurses in military hospital to work with army people and see

their one delhi tenure is equal to your 10 field postings
what a harassment from all the directions

let the govt not to give them so called fat salary
make them pure civilians like any other defence civilians/civil nurses and enjoy working with those pure civilian employees

kya maza hai
it is holi ,let them enjoy thier life with whole world sitting at home
it is diwal…….. sit at home kyon kya karenge….then produce medical certificate
any part of the day you walk in for duty who is going to punish them.if anybody ask also…. dhamki dedo …court case karenge
duty is upyo 4,o clock vanish by 3,oclock…….
patient dying, duty is over ………………….etc etc
civilians ka maza laelo na …..

i wish and pray aise ek din aaye …and mr vivek maza laele

25 09 2008
swaminathani

dear arun
thanks a lot to write such a beautiful letter to vivek who does not deserve to write at this column.you have purely and clearly put it through.excellent yaar.i like to congratulate you for opening up many eyes.
if any strike the civil nurses enjoy th day with their families because the road is blocked ,no buses running ,not safe to get out etc. but if a nurse in the army is late by half an hour you know how difficult her life will be !!!!.
if any question is asked dhamki from the iron hearted higher ups,harrassment.i wish the day comes when the army nurses do not need their post as officers and get facilities as civil nurses.

in conclusion we need the govt to release the military nurses whenever they putup their papers for retirement and give them the peaceful life as all other citizens.

i do not think vivek will write any more in this comments column.

28 09 2008
T.S

Deari Swaminathani

I appreciate your comments you can understand better ours problem my wife also Nursing Officer, those who are talking about fat pay I tell them one thing in spite of fat pay Nursing Officers are ready to leave the service on today like my wife ready to leave the service.

Maa Baap ko samaghena ka leya Maa Baap hi Bana parta hi.

29 09 2008
Anon

The complaint which had been posted at the url is NOT AVAILABLE ANYMORE.

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/release-problems-from-mns-in-indian-armed-forces-indian-army-c99113.html

Probably the link has been deleted .

SOMEONE AFRAID OUT THERE ……?????????????????????????

Or did the complaint SCARE them.

29 09 2008
glowfriend

Interesting exchange of ideas

30 09 2008
swaminathani

dear t.s.
thanks.at last let us hope that the army and the related people leave the nursing officers to live happily after resigning from the army. let us wait.they do not need bread and butter of the army.it becomes bitter and bitter everyday.

4 10 2008
MEENU

I have gone through all the comments given by all but just wish to know that if any action is taken and any help can be provided to nursing officers those who are wishing to settle their lives with their family and give the complete and comprehensive care to their kids.The work should not be imposed .Those who want to be out of it what can be the easiest way

6 10 2008
Unknown

Meenu,

I completely agree with you.

Work should not be imposed , if work is imposed I guess it is know as BONDED LABOUR.

Isn’t Bonded Labour unconstitutional – I guess some parts of the Indian army still abide by that.

A very close relative of mine was denied leave when her mother expired ; what would you call that .

Pay commission might give a good hike , but to some ( I guess most ) family life precedes over money – and WORLDWIDE family gets the first precedence .

Maybe some one should tell the Indian Army that – I see various TV shows being hosted , with various celebrities , some one should let them know the hard facts.

As an idea it would be better to open up a group discussion at groups.yahoo.com .

18 11 2008
vijo

its interesting!! voices being heard at last! this is like god is willing to give, but the pujari is stopping him. why why why this discrimination, why this disparity, why are the MNS officers treated like untouchables! lets not bicker among ourselves about the matrons and admin staff, they are so, coz thats the way they have come up thats the way the MCPs wants them to be, to DIVIDE AND RULE. for heavens sake lets not fall apart. Pay us for what we are! Central Govt can pay salaries and perks like 6-8 paid servants, and you know what—–, the N/offs dont need any perks, at least there should be no disparity in the pay??

18 11 2008
elias

Military Nursing Officers of Indian Army are the best nurses in the world as per the 2008 october survey team Headed by Dr.Earnest Eddison of Willington Hospital of New Jersey United States of America. They got 100% mark when compared to all other nurses of 24 selected countries for their intelligence, dedication and sincerity. It is very surprising to hear that they are ill treated and not assesed with their values which is very demoralising for them.

Thier is the saying that ” when a person loses the vision of the eyes he will understand the importance of the eyes ” It is same with Indian Military Nursing officers also, Once the Indian Army loses them , they will understand their dedication and sincerity of the Indian Florence Nightingles.

Elias

23 11 2008
Peter

The true value of an MNS Officer is known to all those who have been admitted in Military Hospitals. Hey, guys chill. Do pray for their betterment and not berate them. They deserve our respect and not adverse comments made by some of the posts!

3 12 2008
vijo

hey whats the latest are the officers being paid?

21 12 2008
Alok

Mr. Subesh
Compare the perks and privileges of a Nurse in civil with that of a Military Nurse.A Military Nurse has privileges of subsidized accommodation ,travel facilities,ration,good schooling for children ,canteen facilities including liquor.A civil nurse does not have any of thes facilities and working for as low salary as 4000 Rs per month.Those who are involved in patient care have to work beyond the call of duty.Members of MNS are not exception.
Equating the pay of members of MNS with officers of Armed Forces is a major anomaly and will definitely affect smooth functioning of hospitals.

22 12 2008
A.S.Kumar

Dear Alok,
Its very sad u r making such comments about MNS officers. When the civil nurses work for correct 8 hours a day and geting a day off, MNS Officers are working 12hrs per day. IF THE CIVIL NURSES ATTENDS CALL DUTY, they are paid extra for every minute they work.As per rule night duty is for 15 days in 2-3 months but because of shortage their night duty goes beyond 15 days and frequent, but no extra pay. In civil hospital, they take nursing care charges from patients, but in Army u r enjoying free but gentle and decent nursing care.
In civil nurses are accountable for only patient, but in Army, if a cementing is not done properly on the floor or cowebs are found on walls, nurses are answerable and u find a clean and healthy environment in Army hospitals, just because of nurses supervision. and who told u civil nurses are paid less, a Bsc Nurse working in civil hospital geting 40000+house and other allowences too. In india only people who is not authorised for public holiday off is MNS officers. U know? If MNS officer take a SIQ for aday due to illness, her day off is cut for that week. For the knowledge level u cannot compare MNS Officers with civil nurses, that is why, if u go and see any hospital in kerala top administrators are retired Army nurses.
In abroad the nurses are paid 50$/hr . And to go abroad, Army is not giving release to these bad lucky people.
They are considered as second citizen in their own country.

=

22 12 2008
arun

mr alok
in civil in civil in civil if you compare civil
can you tell me the perks of a post man,milk man , store keeper etc and compare resposibilities,working hours,accountability etc
havenot you come across any civil set up
tell me with your self conscious -have you seen a mns officer even running away at exact off duty hour
even to handover patiets to next shift person it takes half an hour after each shift
in civil every extra hour counts as over time
if you are not happy with your perks you fight for that
why to talk about others perks

22 12 2008
subesh

dear mr alok
yes s s s s !!!! you are right .
any unqualified person in any trade can work for meagre amount in civil

22 12 2008
Alok

There is no doubt that members of MNS are doing their job.But the perks they are enjoying are not commensurate with their job and responsibility.In that sense they are very highly paid, even in the scale of fifth pay commission.

25 12 2008
PeeTee

@ Alok

It is certain Alok, you a dukhi medical officer of the defence who is jealous of his MNS colleagues. Wait till you hear the COAS has turned down DACP scheme applicable for doctors in civil for Army doctors !!!

Then you’ll jump as if ants got into ur pants…

25 12 2008
coolchaks

I Would like in to ink in a few of my comments with regards to nursing officers getting the same benefits as regular commissioned officers.
1. Nursing Officers are not part of any field or combat unit.They are posted to static military establishments well located in peace,and in the rear echlons.While even a lady officer of a different arm or for the matter of fact a doctor is posted as an RMO of a infantary batallion thus being an active participant of combat operations.
2. To make them comparable they need to match up to the same physical standards and training standards imparted to lady officers or even lady doctors.Here the comparison with qualification should not be made as even military engineers for example follow the same physical standards as a regular officer.They are non combatants.they do not fire a single weapon which a military doctor needs to do and achieve a satisfactory standard.
3. The entire question of the the presidents commission comes into play.
4. They have not qualified the services selection board which is mandatory for lady officers to qualify.
5. I have had torrid experiences with MNS officers .Barring a few ,the rest just see it as a good cushy govt job.Its fortunate that the govt still gives a different status .in my opnion their status should be the same as upper grade military clerks or AEC PBORS or a RT(As even RTs get into the army as JCOs because of their qualifications.)
6. Also the degree of responsibility imparted to a commissioned officer needs to be understood.They need to fulfill a lot of mundane jobs like doing boards,court of enquiries,etc.All this then needs to be fulfilled by the Nursing offrs.If this is done we will see how they shirk from these routine duties stating that their nursing duties is a sophisticated a full time profession.Whereas all doctors have to do this.

Kindly ponder on all these points.I have nothing against MNS but its comparison with regular commissioned officers or doctors is not warranted.In my opinion if this problem needs to be tackled then they should not be given officer ranks but those of a JCO.

25 12 2008
Alok

I fully agree with coolchaks comments.
There was a proposal to enroll Nurses in the PBOR rank,May be at the Havildar level which somehow did not materialise.It would have been an apt thing to happen to the country.Male nurses after training can be put in any areas of operation.
Do not try to compare the knowledge level of a member of MNS with any other officer.They know only as little as a Nurse in civil.Someone has mentioned that a civil nurse does 8 hr duty where as a military nurse is doing a prolonged job.But what about 60 days annual leave and 20 days casual leave?
I found out that Military Nurses after retirement are working for Rs 3000-4000 in Kerala.
So do not feel anything great about MNS cadre.

25 12 2008
indian

@ coolchaks (08:24:40)
< I have had torrid experiences with MNS officers.

P’raps u aren’t having those ‘torrid experiences’ with them now. Is that why u r now speaking against them? Tsk, tsk… ; )

25 12 2008
indian

@ Alok (16:42:11) :
< I found out that Military Nurses after retirement are working for Rs 3000-4000 in Kerala.

My, my…. U sure r into serious research into MNS officers career graphs (even after retirement), eh !

Is their any other ‘research’ about these ladies u r keen on, and not meeting with success ?

Relieving frustrations ???

27 12 2008
Alok

Yes, I have studied the issue in detail. Strongly believe that Officer status given to the undeserving community was a major blunder done by independant India.The only corrective measure is to make retire the present lot immediately(so that they can work for 50 $ per hour at abroad as Mr A S Kumar has commented aboveiii) and recruit new people in PBOR cadre.

27 12 2008
Peter

Dear Mr Righteous Alok

Your qualifications on the comment “undeserving community” please.

“Major blunder” – who in your opinion is to be held accountable for that blunder?

Have you forwarded the details of your ‘study’ to Integrated Headquarters of MOD (Army) for perusal/action?

If you have the authority, please do recommend expeditious acceptance of Nursing Officers PMR applications that are being put up despite your so called high status, pay and perks.

28 12 2008
aakash

mr alok
do one day duty like private doctors who is paying quakes Rs 4000
ask any of army personnal who would like to be taken care by a quake
poor civilian doctors are not getting 60 days anual and 20 days casual leave

29 12 2008
kaka

Hey Coolchaks,
Your comments are completely obnoxious and after reading those it seems that you yourself trying hard to get int officers rank from JCO*.
There is saying in Hindi” AADH GAGARIYA CHALKAT JAYE, BHARI GAGARIYA CHUPKE JAYE.

Who told you that they are placed in peaceful areas? DIMAPUR in Nagaland and Rajauri in J&K are few of most disturbed areas in world and yes, they get their posting also. And above all its not their mistake if some hospitals are located in peaceful areas. They have to serve in Defence hospital irrespective of KIND of area. HOW CAN YOU EXPECT AN SOFTWARE ENGINEER WORKING WITH MNC BASED IN BGLORE TO START WORKING FROM SRINAGAR AT HIS OWN(unless or untill he open his own company)??
Even combat units get peace area posting after few years.

Be realistic, if you ever been to defence hospital you can easily recognise the ENTHU these ladies are working with when compared to doctors. After 12 hrs shift you cant expect to attend PT session. You cant expect them to running whole day to fulfill the demands of regular army officers as done by so called ARDALIES.

Also if you wish, just check wikipedia about US MNS. There the DG-MNS are getting oppourtunity for commanding hospitals. Not like in India where the common believe is that they are not capable.

Everytime we hear that so many defence officers completed their fulltime MBA degree from some of reputed instituions, why these ladies are not allowed to even enroll for corrspondance cases. I know you are not the authority to answer these, but before spitting venom get your facts correct.

And mr Alok in response to your comment that MNS officer working for 4000 in kerala, i would say that I know an ALOK working for 1500 as courier boy, it does not mean that all Aloks are courier boys earning 1500.

As stated earlier by someone, their need to be change in attitude of so called PMs. Instead of buttering their seniors for own benefit they should stand for rights of MNS offrs. Then only after some years their will PMs who can negoniate hard with this male dominated force. Otherwise the good will take VRS and again it wil be vicious cycle.

5 09 2010
ronit talwar

Hey Kaka….you righhtly said alok’s a courier boy working for 1500/-…haha ha i completely agree with what you say….

31 12 2008
Peter

Alok

HAPPY NEW YEAR !

31 12 2008
Alok

Happy New Year to All of You.

1 01 2009
Alok

Happy New year to all once again.
My early statements hold strongly.I will enumerate the following facts.
1.A woman becomes member of Military Nursing Service after doing three years training in any of the recognised hospitals.The girls who have not got admission any where else join for the job.
2.Just by doing three years training they become Officers which is never heard or seen anywhere.
3.Only a few work well and they are put in Officers ward,Officers family wards.Others do jobs (or do not do ?) in other less important areas.
4.Those who are doing their job does it well.But that is a veryu less proportion.Others spend time in sorting out their personal problems .
5.If present pay commission scale made applicable to Nurses they also will reach in PB 4 after certain time.They become equivalent to Scientists,Professors,Civil service Officers.
6.A nurse will ask for premature release if her husband is well settled.This is true in minority of cases.Actual fact is other way around.
7.Govt is spending lot of money on them in the form of training,provision of facilities like Officers accomodation and other benefits.
8.The best way the system can work if
a) nurses are recruited at PBOR level.
b) nurses are employed from civil on contractual basis.

I have put my thoughts in another site so that more people can read it.Please go to
http://blog.bandofbrothers.in/2008/10/19/pay-parity-nurses-coast-guard-and-the-armed-forces/#comment-585

10 01 2009
cinu

Mr Alok
As Swaminathini as said you require a thorough psychiatric councilling otherwise you will go into severe depression by next commision . As you rightly told we should enroll mns officers on contract basis let the first lady sepoy start from your family so right now enroll your great grany if she is alive and make her to do third standard class and put one by one in your family who is born and who is yet to be born on contract basis , so that whole of MNS salary goes to your account and atleast you and your famiy start thinking positively for rest of your frustated life.

5 09 2010
ronit talwar

ha ha ha…well said Cinu…Alok seems to be really frustrated by other’s pay packages….

10 01 2009
elias

Hai cinu,

Ur comment for alok is absolutely right in all angle which he needs to understand now. if he don’t understand now then pls leave him alone and assume that he is not a normal human being………….. It is just like a african wild animal jealousy which is uncurable and hereditary……………

12 01 2009
Peter

Hi all

I think it is worthless to engage guys like Alok. He has some very strong dis-affinity towards MNS and will never be convinced with reasoning. Leave him alone and in case he is a doctor, hope that he has to make do with ‘contract nurses’ in his duties. Then he will repent ….

If he is a PBOR wanting to be the ‘replacement’ for MNS then he should forget it as none of the families would like to have male nurses in charge of them …

13 01 2009
KRST

I agree with many of the points mentioned by Alok.
MNS officers are not granted President’s commission, hence they are not commissioned officer as others are.
Most of them are diploma holders earned by them in various Probationary Nurses’ schools in service hospitals. Only some of them come with a graduation degree from College of Nursing, Pune and these are definitely much better trained professionally.
The army act is only selectively applicable on them while all other commissioned officers are subject to the entire army act.
They do not do any of the secondary duties that a regular commissioned officer is required to perform.
Their rank is primarily given to them to have respectability in the eyes of PBORs.
Many of the MNS officers are hard-working and caring towards their patients. Equally many do not bother much about their patients.
Their duty hours are strenuous but they also get annual and casual leave like all other officers. Their duty hours should be rationalised.
They perform an important role in patient care and this should not be belittled.
However, to equate them with regular commissioned officers with all their varied responsibilities is being unfair to the commissioned officers.

15 01 2009
Peter

@ KRST

Please refer to the advt by the AFMS for BSc Nursing / General Nursing & Midwifery (GNM) Course 2009. It clearly mentions that on completion of BSC (Nursing) or GNM Course the applicants will be granted “Commissions” in the Military Nursing Service. So where lies the doubt that Nursing Officers are Commissioned Officers or not.

Please also read the applicability of AA 1950 and AR 1954 below :-

Army Act, 1950 and Rules 1954 :

The Army Act, 1950 is applicable to the Officers of Nursing Services, with some exceptions to certain sections, which are from Section 34 to 70 dealing with offences. Of the provisions of the Army Act dealing with offences, only Section 39 – Absence without leave and Section 63 – Violation of good order and discipline shall apply to offences committed by Officers of Nursing Services. The Army Rule, 1954, in its entirety is applicable to Officers of Nursing Services. The Rule 16A lays down the authority for release of Officers from Nursing Services. The Rule 16A: Retirement of officers. — (1) Officers shall be retired from service under the orders of the Central Government, or the authorities specified in sub-rule (2), with effect from the afternoon of the last date of the month in which they—(a) Attain the age limits specified in sub-rule (5);or (b) Complete the tenures of appointment specified in sub-rule 5 (f) (ii) and (g) (ii) and sub-rule (6), whichever is earlier.(2) The authorities referred to in
sub-rule (1) shall be—(a) The Director-General, Armed Forces Medical Services in respect of officers of the Army Medical Corps, Army Dental Corps and Military Nursing Service.

Defence Service Regulations & Other Rules :

The Officers of Nursing Services are governed by Defence Service Regulations – Regulations for the Army 1987, various Government Orders, Army Instructions and Army Orders. The Defence Service Regulations – Regulations for the Army (DSR), Para 733 (b) ordained that women officers serving in the Army Medical Corps and officers in the Military Nursing Service will rank equally with male officers of the same titular rank, e.g., a captain (women officer) in the Army Medical Corps, will rank equally with a captain in the Artillery or Engineers. The Army Rank was granted to Nursing Officers by Army Instruction 4/59. They are entitled to salute and other compliments as laid down in Army Order 353/73. The Army Order 70/73 lays down that, persons subject to Army Act who are placed under the professional care of officers of the Military Nursing Service shall obey and comply with professional orders and direction of such Nursing Officers. They shall be liable to be punished for non-compliance of such orders, under
Section 63 of Army Act, 1950 for violation of good order and discipline. The pay and allowances of Officers of Nursing Services are as per the government orders issued from time to time. The Army Order 11/82 lays down the order of precedence of Military Nursing Service in the hierarchy of the Arms and Services of the Army. The DSR, Vol – I Para 235, assigns ADGMNS (Additional Director General MNS – held by an Officer of Major General rank), the duty of technical advisor to DGAFMS, DGMS (Army), DGMS (Navy) and DGMS (Air Force). Further, the DSR, Vol – I, Para 242 (read with Para 243, 247, 250 and 251) lays down that, all Nursing Officers in charges of wards and departments are responsible only to the Principal Matron of the Military (including Navy and Air Force) Hospital (Medical Establishment).

Why the bally-hoo about being diploma holders from PN Schools ? Ex-NDA officers are ‘only’ 12th class pass before they join NDA. So ?

Similarly AFMC officers are also NOT MBBS before they pass out from there.

MNS officers do not do any of the secondary duties that a regular commissioned officer is required to perform simply because they are NOT ‘regular’ commissioned officers, they are MNS Officers. But I’m not too unsure if they would refuse to do Board of Officers or Court of Inquiries if they were eligible to do so AND if they were spared from Nursing duties for it. As configured, their duties require them to be on duty at their ward/station for fixed shifts. In addition there are ‘call duties’ and ‘night duties’ for long spells.

It is hard to believe that you believe that their rank is primarily given to them to have respectability in the eyes of PBORs. Does it not apply to ‘regular’ officers also ? :) Just try it, remove your pips and move about amongst jhonnies and see how many of them salute you just getting impressed with your ‘personality and OLQ’ !

Equally many do not bother much about their patients – Yeah, sad story. But thats the trait in every organisation in this kalyug ! So whats the point here ? That “We” are holier than “Them”?

But they also get annual and casual leave like all other officers – Hope you are not recommending a change. By the way PBOR get 30 days casual leave.

However, to equate them with regular commissioned officers with all their varied responsibilities is being unfair to the commissioned officers – As already brought out MNS are also ‘commissioned officers’ so where is the unfairness. Yes, it was unfair so far. The 6CPC has rightly rationalised the pay-scales (bands) now, the difference in nature of duties from ‘regular officers’ has however been appreciated and MSP has been suitably kept lower. That’s it !

By continoued mention of “equation”, it seems to me that the Medical Services in the INDIAN ARMY is still keen on following the ‘Caste System’ where the MNS may be likened to the ‘shudra-jaati’ !!!

Come on folks, wake up to the reality and see the blunder you are committing. Do not belittle your sisters who have been given a better deal than before and motivate them to strive harder for excellence in patient care. The civilian populace is watching while you run down your colleagues while asking for more for yourselves !

15 01 2009
priya

INDIAN MILITARY NURSE IS THE WORLDEST NO 1 NURSESS.

THIS PAY HIKE IS NOTHING FOR NURSESS

16 01 2009
vasant

In my experience a military nurse is not doing anything extra in comparison to a civil nurse.But why such extra benefits to a military nurse?Why pay commission is not looking in to this aspect? In a country with such an unemployment state one can get ladies to work as nurse with much lesser perks.

16 01 2009
husain

haaaa vasant unemployment exists everywhere in the world all are not keen to reduce the salary of nursess or any women who is working that will never decrese the unemployment. in a country like india women should be initiated to work not to demoralise them from ur statement i can understand how much u are anti towards specially nursess. u are in which generation i feel sorry for ur wife,mother,sister etc.

17 01 2009
vasant

When one is making valuable suggestions which have long term implications, it is not correct to use abusive language on the wife/mother/sister of that individual.The latters utterances indicate the culture and the social set up in which he was brought up.

5 09 2010
ronit talwar

Vasant the pay packages can be reduced universelly…why only MNS OFFICER’S…ANY PERSONAL GRUDGES AGAINST THEM…

18 01 2009
Peter

Dear Vasant

Reference your two posts above.

Yes, I think one should adhere to norms of decency while making comments especially when in public domain.

But with respect to your comment on – “not doing anything extra in comparison to a civil nurse”.

It seems you have neither an idea what a civil/military nurse charter of duties are !! For your information and to be convinced, I would suggest you to physically meet with one of each – a civil nurse and an MNS officer in their work environment for a 24 hour spell and check out their charters.

Please also observe if the civil nurse performs any duty beyond her charter/timings. And the periodicity of their “Night Duty”, “Call Duty” etc. Also check out the All India service liabilities of these civil nurses.

Also check how many are living with their families and compare.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Then come to a reasoned and impartial decision on whether MNS officers are “doing anything extra”.

However, if your attitude – “In a country with such an unemployment state one can get ladies to work as nurse with much lesser perks” is anything to go by, I wonder whether you will have an attitude of taking up this survey. Isn’t it just so much easier to just shoot one’s mouth off !!!!!!

(Perhaps, in your opinion, the time spent by Justice Srikrishna and his 6CPC team which came to the conclusion that there was a glaring disparity in MNS Officers pay and perks was a total waste)

Do let us know the outcome of this survey if you decide to take it up. Thanks.

19 01 2009
vasant

I do admit that working conditions are slightly different and in certain aspects better than those of a civil nurse.But the pay and perks MNS is enjoying? She is earning more than 5-10 times the pay of a nurse in civil.Why this disparity?This issue needs to be considered at higher levels.

5 09 2010
ronit talwar

VASANT,I STRONGLY FEEL WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT SALARIES…IS IT COMING OUT OF YOUR POCKET…NO…I AM SORRY TO HAVE SAID THAT BUT WHO ARE WE TO DECIDE WHO WILL GET WHAT…DON’T COMAPRE SALARIES…LOOK AT THEIR CHARTER OF WORK AS PETER RIGHLTY POINTED OUT….PLEASE FOR HEAVEN’S SAKE….I HAVE ONE OF MY CLOSE FRIENDS WITH MNS & I COULD READ HER PAIN WHEN SHE REVEAL’S HOW SHE IS HUMILIATED…I FEEL MEDIA SHOULD COME INTO THIS ……WE NEED TO BLOG & BLOW OUT THE FACTS OF WHAT HAPPEN’S INSIDE THE INDIAN ARMY…HOW LADIES ARE TOURTERED…

22 01 2009
PRANAV

mr.hussain,
from your language I understand you are a frustratedunemployed husband of a MNS member whose only job is to look after her kids,finish her liquor quota and write the language your parents have taught you.

5 09 2010
ronit talwar

Mr. Pranav,i have no word’s to address you…please don’t join such discussion’s if you don’t have basic education to support it.Please forgive us from your uaseless comments..we are not interested…

23 01 2009
Peter

husain @ (10:49:38)

When on a public site, discretion is sincerely advised. You are not furthering the cause of those you are trying to speak for

23 01 2009
husain

—pranav (vasant)

i am working a mnc company

my salary is more than a ias officer salary in india.

i am brother of mns officer i dont want liq– also

u stop thinking about others and dont look about who is getting more salary. if u want more salary be professionaly qualifed and work anywhere.

dont be jealous of others

my language is little harsh but from ur language i can say u r not having any respect to any women and u also should not get any respect
this also not getting into ur brain u should consult a psy. doctor

i agree to mr peter but u should not make such coments which is not existing.
u felt bad when i made ONE such comment think of others also. u r writing since so many days such comments which others also feel bad

5 09 2010
ronit talwar

Pranav,are you educated…???? i Doubt….

23 01 2009
Peter

Dear Pranav

I do hope you treat Husain’s post as an ‘apology’ of sorts. : )

However, it may be obvious to note a certain disaffection of the AMC cadre for the MNS. This disaffection encompasses families of MNS officers and the routine perks and privileges available to all officers of the services hence your comment on liquor quota.

I wonder what is the raisin d’etre behind this. Are MNS officers a threat to the AMC? If so, Why? (Isn’t comparing the two organisations like comparing apples and oranges).

And why ventilate here in public. The DGAFMS is responsible to formulate policy on AMC, AD Corps and the MNS. Why not approach him through the appropriate channels? I think all MNS detractors are barking up the wrong tree! No amount of posting negetive comments will achieve anything. By the way the SAI 4/S/2008 dated 22 Dec 2008 has been issued and MNS officers are going to receive their pay and allowances and arrears in their Jan 2009 payslip as approved by the Govt. (But objected to by individual AMC officers!)

Perhaps it has something to do with the MNS being an “all woman” force. Males just can’t take it I guess. Maybe its time to have male nursing officers too in the MNS !!!

Think about it. If women can join the arms and services. Why not men in the MNS. At least some of the biases (mainly due to gender) may get diminished!

P.S. Congrats to all MNS officers on their new pay.

23 01 2009
Peter

All

I forgot to mention Col’s to Maj Gen are in PB 4 and so will be Lt Col’s same as for regular officers, when matter are cleared by the Govt. on the PB 4 issue for Lt Col’s. (I hope that will be true!!! :) )

25 01 2009
PRIYA

Has the combatant ?non combatant issue resolved?There was an attempt to label MNS officers non combatant by quoting MOD notification which states that MNS officers will get less MSP as they are not primarily meant for Combat duties. There should not be disparity while holding same rank.The PMO had said that Lt Col in combatant role only get PB 4.

26 01 2009
Peter

@ PRIYA

MNS officers are ‘primarily’ not meant for combat duties as has been mentioned in the original 6pc report, but that does not mean they do not proceed to areas where “combat” is taking place. Aren’t many of you been sporting SSM, Op Parakaram Medal etc

But there’s no need to worry, case has been taken up with the PMO/Anomalies committee that there is no such nomenclature in the services as ‘combatants’ and ‘non-combatants’. So sister wait along with your fauji-bhais for the announcement all are so eagerly waiting for!

Patients… (Oops, I meant patience) :)

31 01 2009
Peter

Hi all !

PB-4 for Lt Col’s will be out soon as per ‘langer gup’ and should include everyone. Everyone! (Less deputationists proceeded on volunteer basis) So CONGRATS! Enjoy. :)

31 01 2009
Peter

Also all MNS Officers,

Check out the CDA (O) Website. Your 6pc pay and arrears await you !!! All Lt’s, Capt’s and Maj’s promoted in 2006 make certain you pick the right “Option” lest you loose heavily.

Ciao !

5 02 2009
sushma

The members of Military Nursing Service (MNS) are of Commissioned rank appointed by a notification in the Gazette of India as Officers of MNS forming part of regular Army (Section 5 Military Nursing Service Ordinance 1943). As they are Officers holding a Commissioned rank, they are Commissioned Officers ranking equally with any other arm/service Officers of same titular rank [Defence Services Regulations (Army) Para 733 (b)]. As other Officers are not addressed as Members of EME or AMC, JAG etc. the increased tendency in the Army to refer the MNS Officers as Members of MNS is inappropriate and misleading.

The sense of fairness of today’s Officers has been seriously affected by the propaganda campaign unleashed by few of the AMC Officers or Commissioned Members of AMC (in their own language). The Members have convinced the entire Army and including the supposed to be wise Generals of other arms/ services that the MNS Officers are an out cast and shall be lowered from the Commissioned Officers Status. The proof is the Army Chiefs letter asking to lower the pay scales of MNS Officers. The Army Chief through his letter dated 20 Jun 2008 asked the Cabinet Secretary to lower the pay scales of MNS Officers to ensure patient care in armed forces hospitals!

The army doctors like the army nurses, also does not undergo the Services Selection Board (SSB) interview to test their Officer Like Qualities (OLQs). The doctors, dentists and nurses are given Commission not because of their OLQs, but merely for their professional qualifications. Therefore the army Doctors supposed fears of ‘nurses pay adversely affecting the patient care in the long run’ should be correctly interpreted as their ‘lack of leadership qualities adversely affecting the management of the medical establishments’. Due to their inferiority complexes, many of the doctors after wearing army officers uniform tries to become more officer like than the true Officers and end up being an ‘Army Nurse Basher’. They have misplaced notions about officer like qualities. Such army doctors tries to vent their frustrations originated out of their professional inabilities and lack of leadership qualities by pulling down the Army Nurses. The survey conducted by the WHO in 2008, ranked the Indian Army Nurses as the best Nurses in the world.

The USA became the first country in 1901, to constitute the Nursing Services as a Corps of its Army and placed all the Nursing Personnel under it. Now the Army Nurse Corps Officers (Nurses) are considered equally for even Command positions in their Army Medical Service (US Army Nurses routinely Commands Military Medical Establishments and Army Medical Commands). The logic is that, in a system when neither (doctor/nurse) is tested for OLQs, any one who has the requisite leadership abilities should be given the opportunity to Command. A Nurse can be a better Commander than a Doctor, because Command is a test of Leadership. Any army nurse is also equally qualified to perform in leadership positions like the doctors in the army, but both are not tested for OLQs. In India the Command of medical units is a sacred act performed only by the Doctors! Let it remain that way, I don’t think any army nurse will demand for such posts due to our “caste- mindedness”.

In 1943, the Nursing Services of all the Imperial Forces (Armies of India, Canadian, Australian, South African and including British etc.) had the same status as ‘auxiliary force of army’. After the war, all these Countries including Pakistan have formed Army Nurse Corps out of their own Military Nursing Service. The nursing personnel (Nursing Assistants/ Nursing Orderlies) previously part of Army Medical Corps were then transferred to the Nurse Corps for proper management by the professional Nurses. But in the Indian Army the Nursing Assistants are still part of AMC. Many of them are being misused as ‘sahayaks’ at the AMC Officers houses and Messes, whereas they are meant for assisting the Nurses in the medical units. Almost every country has constituted Army Nurse Corps in their Armies after the WW-II. However, the MNS still continues as an ‘auxiliary force of Indian Army’.

The Nurse to Doctor Ratio in Indian Army is 1:2 (3000 nurses and 6000 doctors). The ideal ratio is 4:1 as recommended by the Indian Nursing Council and being followed by Civil Hospitals. Such low ratio of Nurses is being justified by showing the 20000 strong Nursing Assistant tradesmen of AMC, as available for assisting the Nurses. This is theoretically true but practically exists only on paper. The Army manages by making the Nurses to work for 72 hours a week as against the 48 hours in Civil. The minimum hours of work to be performed by the Army personnel in a week are also 48 hours.

The most of the Countries including Pakistan have Army Nurse Corps as part of their Army. In USA the Army Nurse Corps Officers (Nurses) even commands Army Hospitals and Medical Commands. Is the Patient Care in those Army’s have been adversely affected due to this? The answer is no. The Indian Army Nurses are the best professionals in this field. The patient care in the Indian Army is better than the Civil. However, the Army’s discriminatory attitude to the MNS Officers is going to adversely affect the patient care (if not already affected). It will further erode in the coming years unless immediate corrective steps are taken. The supposedly wise Generals will realize it only post retirement, when there is nobody else to look after them, other than an Army Nurse. Every General like the Deepak Kapoor should get an opportunity to point out to an Army Nurse while lying on a Military Hospital bed, that she is an ‘inferior class of Officer as being from an auxiliary force’. He is assured of a good care from her.

The need of the hour is to strengthen the Nursing Services by allowing it to be managed by the professional Nurses. Presently the Nursing Services in Army is managed by the Doctors. We shall follow in the steps of other nations by re designating the Military Nursing Service as a Corps of regular Army. And then transfer all the nursing personnel to the Nursing Corps for proper management of nursing resources. This is the only way the Nursing Services and thereby the Patient Care can be improved in the Indian Army.

6 02 2009
Peter

@ Sushma

The clarification from PMO’s office to PPOC doe not mention MNS officers anywhere, so maybe PB-4 will come for MNS Lt Cols as well albeit with lesser Grade Pay!!!

10 02 2009
mary

I was commisioned in mns in 1965 and worked for about 8 more yrs in Delhi and Pune before I resigned after I got married.Since 1974 I was working in US as registered nurse.Every day I used to go to work with the pride that my basic good nursing trainning gave me a chance to continue to be a good nurse with compassion and dedication. My american co workers here in the US always used to admire the way I did care for my patients. At that time thoughts used to go back to the training days in the 60′s in INDIA.I will always cherish those days of my trainig and all the tutors who put a lot of their time and effort for each nursing students. Every MNS deserve a good salary,respect from the public and a better working enviornment
thank you

19 03 2009
Prem Prakash

Dear Editor,
Having read the comments on various issues, it is quite evident that comments are being mailed for the sake of it. They have forgotton that when the eligible candidates apply for any assignment they are well conversent about the serving conditions, entitled emoluments and the role too. Non of them -less Officer candidates are minor or less mature.
So say so is not justifiable. Rank/Status structure created must be followed and honoured.
Up gradation of MNS Structure is also not justifiable. As on now one may put across reasons for justifications but facts do not change.arguments do not replace the logic.

15 04 2009
Dev

According to SAI 4/S/08 the rank/grade pay of Lt Col (MNS) is Rs 6600/- pm where as the CDA(O) is just giving Rs 6100/- as grade pay which is grade pay of Maj (MNS). When CDA(O) has been asked, they clarified that Lt Col (TS) is equivalent to Maj so the grade pay given is right. In SAI 4/S/08 it is not mentioned that Lt Col (TS) MNS Offrs will get the grade pay of Rs 6100/-. moreover in MNS Corps upto the rank of Lt Col, all ranks are time scale. For becoming Capt one has to complete 5 yrs, for Maj 12 years, and for Lt Col 20 years service is required. If an MNS (Lt Col) is getting the grade pay of MNS(Maj) after completing 20 years, what is the use of giving the rank. In other Corps also upto the rank of Lt Col it is time scale promotion. CDA(O) is not having any problem in giving grade pay of Rs 7600/- to them. Even Col (TS) are getting all the financial benefits like other Col (Seletion Grade) are getting. Why it is applicable to Lt Col (TS) MNS officers only.

22 04 2009
Jai Ho

Dev @ 15.4.09

Why are you writing Lt Col (TS) ? Is there any such thing as Lt Col (Selection) in MNS ? Issue the promotion orders as Lt Col, automatically your problem will be solved.

23 04 2009
Daisy

Jai Ho, Thanks for reply it is confirm that while calculating pension Grade Pay also count for pension.

23 04 2009
Senthilkumar

hi,
i have red all the msgs.
My wife is preparing for MNS Short service commission Written Exam.
Kindly let me know the pay scale
and suggest me abt our choice to work in MNS.

thankyou

25 04 2009
Jai Ho

Daisy

Of course, GP is counted.

Senthilkumar

If u want ur wife to b-come a wreck, let her join MNS.

If you want ‘Jannat’, tell her to prepare for NCLEX / CGFNS !
:)

25 04 2009
Dev

Mr Jai Ho,

Army HQ already published it as Lt Col (TS) because of lack of knowledge of those who (MNS Offrs) sitting in administrative jobs. It is well known that there is no Lt Col (TS) and Lt Col(Selection) in the Army right now. Still MNS offrs sitting in higher commands used to publish the promotion orders like Lt Col (TS). Even CDA(O) knows the fact still they don’t want to give the benefits of Lt Col to the MNS offrs. All MNS Lt Cols have to take up the case with the MNS Directorate to get it clarified and issue suitable instructions to CDA(O) to adjust the Grade/rank of Rs 6600/- instead of Rs 6100/-

25 05 2009
Alok

Quoting from a Blog (INDIAN MILITARY INFO-BY NAVDEEP SINGH)

:– EQUIVALENCE OF A DIG (IPS) WITH A BRIGADIER(INDIAN ARMY)

So I laughed when I saw in the 6th CPC report that there was an ‘established relativity’ between a DIG of Police and a Brigadier.

There had been none, relativity that is. There was nothing common between a DIG and a Brig except the rank badges. More so since in the late 1950s when the MHA had upgraded the rank badges of IPS officers, in a meeting between senior functionaries of the MoD and them, MHA representatives had promised that though they had granted an Ashoka and three stars to a DIG, the rank badges would have no bearing on the actual status of a Brig. Clearly there could be no comparison since 100% of IPS officers attain the rank of DIG in 14 years of service including training whereas less than 7% make it to Brig in the defence services and that too in 28 years of service excluding training.

If the 6th CPC had talked of relativity, here is what the actual relativity was till the 6th CPC :

At the time of independence, according to Governor General of India’s notification No F/49/9/35-Public (G), a Colonel was placed on Serial No 38 for status, a DIG on Number 45 and a Lt Col on Number 47. Hence a DIG was 7 steps lower than a Colonel and 2 steps higher than a Lt Col. At the most recent stage of 5th CPC scales, the starting pay of a DIG (Rs 16,400) was sandwiched between a Lt Col (Rs 15,100) and a Col (Rs 17,100).

The 6th CPC and subsequently the CoS however equated a DIG with a Brig (both granted a Grade Pay of Rs 8900). The 6th CPC and elements in the MoF also emphasized that they had not disturbed any status equation and even earlier a DIG was considered equal to a Brig.

How wrong they were. A recent example was of Scheduled Banks in India who have an appointment known as the Chief Security Officer (CSO) in Senior Management Grade Scale -5 (SMGS-V) the requirement for which was that the applicant should be either a Colonel or a DIG.

After the 6th CPC, the same advertisement has been issued with the requirement that the applicant should be either a Brigadier or a DIG.

And they said that the 6th CPC has merely maintained the existing relativities. Below is proof as to how on the contrary existing and established relativities have been blatantly disturbed only after the 6th CPC :

Here is a pre-CPC (2006) advertisement for the post of CSO of a Bank with a rank requirement of Colonel / DIG

Here is a post-CPC (2008) advertisement for the post of CSO of a Bank with a rank requirement of Brigadier / DIG

Isn’t the slide visible to the naked eye ?

9 09 2009
Himanshu

Are thee any secret armed agencies associated with indian army???????

18 11 2009
glowfriend

No knowledge Sir

9 09 2009
Pradip Kr. Banerjee

Please let me aware of rule for fixation of pay for a military pensioner, who servced the defence service for 20 years and joined in state goverment service.
I will be kind enough to you, if u send the information.

20 03 2010
glowfriend

This post is now closed for queries

5 09 2010
nd mathews

sir,
i would like to know the pension entitlement of honoury LT. per month.(total emoulment) including d.a.
please send me message through email.

24 10 2010
HAPPY

my wife is an MNS Officer. She has solved all her problems with the MNS Corps by opting for premature retirement :)

16 04 2013
Deanne

Hello great blog! Does running a blog like
this take a large amount of work? I have absolutely no understanding
of coding but I had been hoping to start my own blog soon.

Anyways, if you have any ideas or techniques for new blog owners please
share. I know this is off topic however I just had to ask.

Thanks!

30 06 2014
glowfriend

Sir,
Thanks for your interest.Blog writing does take lot of time. For one post sometimes it takes two three days of work.
Glowfriend

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